Roy Tang

dyan sa thread na ba yan ikaw nakipagaway? not worth it!

Nde. Binasa ko lang lol

parang ganun naman mag argue ang people on the internet in general

/popcorn

Even people in my feed - who I know are educated - mindlessly argue for him. /clueless

I like the reply "who knows if these kids are innocent?". It exemplifies the total kapit sa patalim nihilism of these idiots.

A Du30 presidency would have the opposite effect of what these supporters expect: instead of bringing peace and order it would just bring chaos and anarchy. Imagine a president flaunting his murderous credentials - he will set a bad example to local politicians, police and military! Extra judicial killings will spike and tolerated: politicians and police/ military men would think - if the president can do it and be praised for doing it, why can't we? They would disregard human rights! Just like in Iraq, Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Nigeria, etc where extra judicial killings is a norm, there will be revenge attacks against authorities and escalation of insurgency. Things will spiral out of control and before you know it, someone close to you will just be part of the statistics of unexplained murders.

Good thing he's not winning.

Bago kayo maunahan ng matakot, ask the question: Is Davao like Iraq, Mexico? Mmmm… no. Eto Roy, found the video that helped me accept the ethics of Du30. Watch… its really a case of self defense. More than vigilante facism. https://youtu.be/MSEPDWAU4u4

Philippines will be another Mexico if DUdirty will be allowed to rule the country. DUdirty's policy of fighting crime with vigilante acts can potentially escalate violence and criminality in the same way as the failed policies implemented by President Calderon of Mexico in 2006 and continued until today by President Pena Nieto. Like DUdirty, Calderon and Pena Nieto presidency centerpiece is fighting crime and openly tolerating vigilantism and human rights abuses. Instead of controlling violent crimes, it actually escalated it. In all there are about 60,000 deaths during Calderon's 6 year term and 30,000 deaths so far trough Pena Nieto's term, not including missing persons who are numbering to tens of thousands as well. Are all those deaths of criminal elements or members of organized crime? Mexican government claims more than 90% are, but in reality, evidence suggest numerous innocent civilians are part of this statistics as well. In addition to this, journalists and human rights activists were also victims of targeted attacks. At the same time, organized crime groups escalated violence through revenge attacks. The problem with leaders who tolerate vigilantism and human rights abuses is that they create a culture of impunity: killings, torture, disappearances etc. becomes ok and normal, and hence accepted by society. The scary thing is that the perception that if something happened to you then you must have been involved in some criminal activity - never mind if your are actually innocent. DUdirty style of governance can be effective in LGU scale as you can micromanage and can control individuals who are beholden to your political whims. Apply this style at the national level i.e., with all the corrupt local politicians who will do everything to protect their vested interest and consider their town/city /province as their local fiefdom, then it is a potential catastrophe may be exceeding that of what is happening now in Mexico. Political killings/ human rights abuses will be easily masked - sasabihin lang, "Ay kriminal yan!" Or, "order yan ni DUdirty!" Yan ba gusto mo Gerard ?

Valid points. Well articulated concerns, Luc. But I still think nauunahan kayo sa takot. Davao mind you is a huge track land to manage too. It is maybe 1/3 of Mindanao if you unite all Davao provinces. And style lang dyan is to institutionalize yung tapang. Yung no nonsense criminal justice system and decentralizatio n ng Manila. So ano ang choices natin? At the end, imho, si Du30 lang. Wala ng iba. Others are all lip service.

Since when did DUdirty governed as de facto ruler of the Davao provinces? ;-) Style lang na institutionalize ang tapang?! What do you mean? No nonsense criminal justice system yet he is also involved in criminal activity i.e., extra judicial killings? I think there is a conflict of concept here!

No, pag ikaw at ako nagumpisa bumunot ng baril at pumatay, thats extra judicial. Pero pag pulis or "legtimate civil authority", they are deputized enforcer of the law! Get it? No conflict. Ngayon, kung ikaw ang pulis, alam mo na puede ka mamatay sa operation, will you not defend your life if the criminal resists arrest and puts your life in danger? Puro tayo takot. Dapat in context lahat! Tapos, just so you know, Davao provinces are so near Du30's jurisdiction that a police chase can spillover to these areas. Thats what I meant. And that means a lot of logistics skill. Which he can replicate. Much larger area but the logistics system will be the same.

FYI, definition of extrajudicial killings as per wiki: "An extrajudicial killing is the killing of a person by governmental authorities without the sanction of any judicial proceeding or legal process. Extrajudicial punishments are mostly seen by humanity to be unethical, since they bypass the due process of the legal jurisdiction in which they occur." Note the words "governmental authorities". If it is done by civilian then it would be simply a homicide or murder depending on the intent. Lol Yup, Davao Provinces are so near that it would not require sophisticated logistics system to tract criminals on the run getting out of the city because there are only 5 provincial road arteries going out of the city. Also I have been to Davao several times and I have seen several police/ military check points set up on these provincial roads - so what special logistics skills are required? If he's really good at it, then why did the kidnappers in Samal Island managed to slip out so easily out of the DUdirty "Davao Provinces" jurisdiction?

So in other words you'll let the suspected criminals shoot you first? Good luck on your model of law enforcement. As to Samal incident, if the kidnap victims were your family, let me ask you, will you also offer the same "due process" when there is video of them pointing their machetes and guns at the victims while demanding 1B PhP of ransom? I mean, wag na tayo mag bolahan. I had an aunt you got kidnapped and was shot dead. Dont tell me the kidnappers deserved our niceties. Good luck uli!

Mind you, most of the "criminals" killed by Davao death squads were engaged on petty crimes, not even those big time violent gangs/ organized crime groups. Can you point to one example where DUdirty actually eliminated a drug king pin or a leader/member of terrorist/ kidnapping group?

Your the one who wants to defend the drug kinpin's rights, so show me the list. Not me.

Gerard, like I said that video really only applies to legitimate police operations against armed and dangerous criminals. If you'll peruse the links David helpfully provided, many of the victims cited there were minors accused of petty crimes. Are you saying they were all killed by policemen who were unable to apprehend them because they were armed and dangerous? Some were shot point blank in the heads, which would set aside any theory of self-defense. You're trying to extend the legal right of law enforcement to defend themselves in dangerous situations to other scenarios without basis

You saw the body? You were there as a witness?

Grabe naman Gerard, we've been through this before. Did you see the bodies of the supposed criminals that were killed? Pwede mag-apply ng critical thinking even without first hand knowledge. Kung ganyan ang logic pano natin ma-criticize ang LP about DAP, wala naman tayong personal knowledge ng bribery, or si Binay about corruption, wala naman tayong personal knowledge sa mga deals nya. Iikot-ikot lang tayo nito e. You keep posting that video, insisting it applies to the killings tapos pag nagcite kami ng reported killings tatanungin mo kung nakita ba namin, which nde naman relevant. Walang mangyayari dito, tulog na lang tayo :p

Lol, if it gets down to "You saw the body? You were there as a witness?" then you might as well disbelieve that anything Duterte did helped with crime and the economy, because you are demanding a fantasy level of proof, which if you applied to anything means almost nothing is believable.

Guys, itulog na lang yan. ;)

Tap out na muna ako for now, it's not like iniintindi mo yung side namin. Basta pakisabihan mo naman mga kakampi mo Gerard, pwede magdebate online nang hindi nangththreaten ng violence, rape or murder. Lalo lang nakakaturn off sa Duterte side e

I know roy. Thats why im trying to show exampe that not all du30 supporters are blood lusting.

Peace out amigo!

roy, someone tried to disprove that you can have a healthy argument with the fans of a certain presidentiable. i think it failed and just strengthened your point.

I was about to say at least binays supporters wont wish rape and murder on you but then i realized wala pa ko nakitang binay supporter online lol

you need more pro binay friends

Roy Tang meron the jeje level is beyond du30

I'm confused. Are you claiming that all the alleged summary executions in Davao were by policemen whose lives were endangered because they were in pursuit of armed and dangerous criminals? I thought you said before that you had no personal knowledge of the killings? BTW, since you decided to bring up this unrelated matter in a thread where I'm complaining about the way some supporters threaten other people online, I'd like to take my own tangent: What do you think of Duterte's stated preference of hero's burial for Marcos and house arrest for GMA?

Confused? Mas matalino ka sa akin roy. You know that. I just realized I jump to a next step assuming you'll connect the dots. Ok, this is not an off tangent post. Your screenshot pertains to the "extra judicial" process many are angry about. Hence…my post. The why. More than the what. Get it now? The root cause which is an ethics people are not as familiar about. Anyway, as to burial and mode of imprisonment, I really dont care to be honest. All I care about is his platform of fixing gornment via system shift to federal parliamentary which is a proven model to improve competence and accountability in government (ala Germany, Japan, Australia, Singapore, etc). Ans improving drastically our GDP per capita via open market economics (as countries above do).

Er, I legitimately don't understand what you're claiming by asking me to watch that video. It talks about the legality of police officers shooting to kill criminals who are armed and dangerous. Am I correct that you are claiming that all the supposed DDS killings were done by policemen in the line of duty in self-defense against armed and dangerous criminals? AFAIK not even Duterte himself claims that. This video seems to be speaking about one particular instance only (IDK the context)

You are correct. It is a particular case. But the system of ethics applied on each case is the probably the same. All I am saying is, there is a system of ethics applied on each case. Which we can trust or not. Kami sa Davao, we arent scared at all for a PolPot or Ferdi Marcos scenario. We trust the system of ethics applied due to the lawlessness context we suffered as a city. Kayo lang mga nasa Manila cant relate. Understanable of course. And at the end of the day, it is a question of trust. Cant force you to trust or not.

Gerard Dacudao http://pcij.org/stories/2002/davao.html

Gerard Dacudao http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/389500/news/regions/victim-of-suspected-summary-execution-found-in-davao-city

http://www.karapatan.org/node/281

'"The city is only safe for the rich, not for the poor," said Neneng, who lost her son to a hit squad eight years ago.' http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2004/02/20/2003099464

http://archives.pia.gov.ph/?m=12&fi=p090708.htm&no=02

It takes just 15 minutes to find all these. "The impunity these killers in Davao enjoy also seem to encourage other murderers who strike in similar fashion. Last August 27, a German national who had lived since 1999 in Hagonoy, Davao del Sur where he owned a beach resort with his Filipina wife, was shot and killed by one of two motorcycle-ridi ng men in Digos City, some 50 kilometers away from Davao." http://www.iidnet.org/two-years-after-the-davao-death-squad-killings-continue/

'Eyewitnesses said that Larosa had been shot by three men in dark jackets who had arrived on a motorcycle. After they shot him, one of them removed the baseball cap Larosa was wearing and said, “Son of a bitch. This is not the one,” and they immediately left the scene. It appears that the assailants were seeking to kill another man, a suspected robber. No one has been arrested for Larosa’s murder. His family is unaware of the police having taken any meaningful action in the case. ' https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/04/06/you-can-die-any-time/death-squad-killings-mindanao

'The typical victims are young men—sometimes boys as young as 14—who are known to be involved in petty crimes such as stealing of cell phones, selling and using drugs on a small scale, or membership in gangs. They are either gunned down or stabbed to death.' http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/business/04/07/09/free-all-davao-death-squad-may-be-hired-p5000

If you are so convinced, file a case against Du30.

Oh, sure, it's practical for one private citizen to go to Davao to start his own investigation into abuses that Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have been trying to get investigated for a decade, gather evidence and file a case himself. It's not like it was hard for a United Nations special reporter to investigate it. It's not like the ombudsman's office is just too scared to do anything about it. Easy. While I'm at it, I'll also solve the traffic problems in Manila. Like, next year.

Yup, exactly my point. Talk is cheap.

You can not find examples, because there is none: he and his death squads only targeted the small guys, i.e. petty criminals. I did extensive search also and could not find any concrete example that he was instrumental in dismantling an organized crime group or a terrorist cell. He has cultivated a personal myth that only adoring gullible admirers can believe. As you said, talk is cheap.

Or being lazy is cheap. I have a list. Just wanted to know if you'd care to know by yourself.

Lol. ;-)

Suntukan na lang tayo oh! Mwehehehehehehe he.

Iwas debate, emigrate na lang tayo ü It's for the sake of the kids.